JJ Rorie
- 1 min read

Using Change Management Principles in Product Management

Episode 011: Lori Edwards:

Oftentimes when we're rolling out a change, one thing that we lose sight of is we often need multiple people to change in their roles in order for our product or our features to be successful or get the desired outcome we're looking for. So that's really why change management is so important in the product role.

Episode Transcript

JJ: Hello and welcome to Product Voices. What is that old saying? The only constant is change. Product management is a system of interconnected activities and people and data, objectives, predictions, decisions. With all of these nuances and all of those conditions, there's just no way that we can exist in a rigid, static environment. And so change is part of our world in product. But not every organization handles change in the best way possible, and not every person embraces change the way that we probably need to. So the way we handle change in product is an important topic, and probably one that doesn't get enough visibility, at least in my opinion.

So I'm really excited about today's conversation with my guest, who is here to talk about change management and product management and how that can help make successful product teams and products. Lori Edwards is the Associate Director of Product at Niche and the co founder of the Women in Products Toastmasters club. Lori has over seven years of experience in product management and is using her expertise to help transform the next generation of wealth. And the coolest thing about Lori is that she loves to bowl, and in fact, she's a two time national champion. So, Lori, thank you so much for joining me. I might bring up the bowling again a little bit later.

LORI: Thank you, JJ, for having me.

JJ: It's so cool. I love to bowl, but I'm not very good, so maybe I'll get a lesson from you at some point anytime. All right. Awesome. Get us started. What is change management and why is it so important in our world of product management?

LORI: Fantastic starting place. So change management is often referred to as the people side of change. And change management really takes the application of processes and tools to manage those people, to change from the current state of the world where you are now to get to that future state that you all want to be and get those desired results that can be expected once the change is successful. So I'm sure we can all look back at a time when our managers or organization wanted us to make a change. And you're sitting there thinking, Why are we doing this? What's the point of this? All these questions come up and you're unsure, well, change management can actually help us through those difficult times and get everybody on board with the change. So you all can be successful not only faster, but usually on time and under budget. Which who doesn't love that?

So oftentimes when we're rolling out a new change, the one thing that we kind of lose sight of is that especially product managers is we often need multiple people to change in their roles in order for our product or our features to be successful or get the desired outcome we're looking for. So that's really why change management is so important in the product role is it can really help us use guidelines and frameworks to help drive those other teams and those other people to ensure that we can really execute on the features in outputs that we're hoping to get from it.

JJ: You know, we pivot and change so much in product management, at least hopefully we do. Otherwise we're probably not being quite successful. Now I will say that market timing is different in every industry and so how often we need to change may vary depending on the industry or company we're in, but it is one of those things that we must do. We must pivot, we must be responsive to marketing customer changes.

But again, we don't often in my experience, talk about change management and how those skills involved in change management can help us when we do need to pivot and change product management. So what got you thinking originally about kind of leveraging the change management skills and processes and principles in your work in product management.

LORI: Excellent question. And you're right, as product managers, we are changing all the time. As you alluded to earlier, change is the only constant, especially for myself. I've always worked in rapid growth companies, so change is happening every day and it's usually really multiple changes actually happening at the same time. So what got me kind of thinking about change management is early on in my career, before I knew what change management was, every time I needed to get a team to use adopt a new product or adopt a new feature I was building, it was so painful and it was very hard and challenging to get these other cross functional teams on board with something that was different and especially if I was completely having to pivot for a new market opportunity because most of the time that required us to stop working on something that was important to them and then I have to convince them to jump on board with something new that they're not even sure what it is yet. This can be really disruptive for teams and it actually can kind of start to tank team morale if you're constantly changing and pivoting. So when people started feeling like, oh, it doesn't matter what we do, the product team is just going to change it anyways.

The business isn't sure where they're headed. When I started hearing those things from the teams I was constantly working with, I knew that something needed to be done differently. It didn't need to be this painful every time we wanted to make a change. Because ultimately that is what product managers are for, right? We're out here to change the world and build the best solutions for our users. So I did some reading, I did some training, and I started learning about change management and the framework that I kind of landed on that works very well for myself is the ADKAR framework. At the time, I was building enterprise products, and I realized that these products were built for internal teams, typically. And many of my customers, if not all of them, had their own processes really tied to the tools and to the software I was building. So every time we do a release, it required them to change their processes on their side. And after a while, we've all probably logged into a product, and every time it changes, you log in, you get tired of using it.

So I started applying these change management principles to some of my newer releases, and I realized that that feature adoption started going a lot smoother. People were starting to be excited about it because I was communicating properly to them, I was meeting them where they were at. And these frameworks of change management allowed me to understand the different parts of the change, as well as where people were getting hung up. And so now today, I actually consider this one of my secret weapons of product management.

JJ: That's so cool. So I was going to ask if you have a particular method or framework that you like. You mentioned that ADKAR. Tell me more about that.

LORI: Yeah. So ADKAR is a framework put out by a company called PROSCI. It's actually an acronym. So that acronym stands for awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and reinforcement. So I use this framework because it's lightweight, it's really easy to remember, and it's even quicker to implement. So you can apply these principles to your change without having to go teach the entire team about change management. If you have external people, you don't have to go and teach them about change management. You yourself as the change leader, the person driving the change. You can apply these just for yourself and have this knowledge and still watch your change be successfully executed. So diving a little bit deeper into that as you implement a change and you think about each one of these steps, I'll walk you through kind of like how you can apply them or questions you can ask yourself.

So the first one is awareness. So really thinking about are the people that you want to execute this change even aware that they're change needs to take place? Right. Like, what's in it for them. Do they understand why it's needed really doing our product management hat and really explain the why this helps get them on board. The second part of this is desire. So once they have awareness, you can kind of start, start to feel from those teams you're asking to change. Do they have the desire to change? We've all probably used a product and had a really painful user experience at some point and we want it to change. We have a high desire to watch it be better and improved, whereas other things we use it every day and we've gotten kind of used to it. We're like, why are you changing it? I finally got this figured out, so my desire to change is probably a lot lower. This is an area where you can really start to understand if you might come across resistance to the change you're trying to execute as well. The next step is knowledge. So do they actually have the knowledge that they need to execute that change successfully or do they need additional training? Maybe we put together some product documentation for them so they have a reference point. Or maybe they need a completely new tool to make all of the pieces of their process flow. Again, knowledge is something that we typically do a lot in B2B products more than B2C products, but it is still an important part of a change. Regardless of what you're releasing. The next section is ability. So once you got them all pumped up, they're excited for the change. They have the knowledge to make the change. This is really what I like to refer to as game time. That's probably because I'm a sports person, but this is the time them where you're taking all those pieces, you're putting them together, and you're going to see if the team can actually successfully do the change you're asking them to do. And in doing that change or making that change, if they can also achieve those desired outcomes that you're looking for within the change. And once you do see that the last section is reinforcement, celebrate those wins on product teams. We love to celebrate the wins.

Expand it out to other parts of the company or even your customers. When a customer is doing something that you got them to change, like highlight them, get their feedback. And if the change still needs some work, this is the perfect time to provide timely and direct feedback on the areas that still need improvement. So this last little part, these last two steps are a little bit of a cycle, right? It's like make the change, see how we're doing. It's not working. Keep adjusting a little bit. But these are really the core foundations where you'll be able to see and identify where somebody might be getting stuck within a change.

JJ: I love this framework, awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, reinforcement. One of the things I love most about that or what you said was that it can be easily implemented by the change leader without a lot of training or maybe even knowledge that the framework is being used internally. I think that probably and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I would bet that that's really important part of this, because part of the resistance to change is just the additional effort it's going to take. Like the inertia it takes for us to change and do something different than what we have been doing.

And so it's one thing to say, okay, we're all going to have a big change management training show up for two days, and then we're going to change everything. And then being able to just implement this behind the scenes, if you will. I think that's a really important point there. Yeah, absolutely. As you were going through the various levels there, I can imagine that this is a framework that could also work with customers. Right. If you're asking them to use a new model or a new functionality or something, it's probably a good model to use as you're trying to educate and make them change their behavior as well.

LORI: Yeah, I have used it on several B2B product launches I've had. And it's also helped me get user feedback because I can use this lens to understand where are they getting hung up? Not just in the maybe the usability of my product, but the other parts that flow into that B2B product that they're using. It might not be your product directly, but they might be hung up on the change because their process that has to happen before they touch your product might now be out of whack or might need to change as well in order for them to successfully use the new thing that you just released to them. So it's a great lens to also apply to that user research as you roll out new products or test new products in the marketplace.

JJ: Yes, I can totally see that. It's a great point. So we all know that no matter how good we are at change management and using frameworks like ADKAR, there are times when they're just folks who are going to have a hard time getting over the hump and really embracing the change.

So what advice would you give to someone who is having a hard time getting someone to change? Maybe it's an internal stakeholder who just doesn't want to do things differently, for example, or something of that nature. What do you advise someone to do when they're having a hard time with one of their stakeholders, getting them over that hump of changing.

LORI: Yeah. I think if we can say we've never worked with a difficult stakeholder, I'd challenge anybody on that. I think we've all had at least one challenging stakeholder or maybe an entire Department of challenging stakeholders.

JJ: Right. I often wonder if I've ever been the challenging stakeholder. I bet some people may say I would. Nobody thinks that they're the challenging stakeholders.

LORI: Absolutely. I'm sure I'm on a few people's list as well as the difficult stakeholder. I would not be surprised. My biggest piece of advice - and this not only applies to change management, but product management in general. Is my go to is seek first to understand. So take a moment, teach them about change management a little bit if you need to. Maybe make them aware of the framework that you're using on the change, even. And what this does is it gives you a common language to speak. So that difficult person, they might not understand why it's so challenging. They might not even aware, like we just said, that we are the difficult stakeholder. Right. So seeking first to understand where they're coming from and putting yourself in their shoes. It allows you to start speaking the same language and building trust with that individual. And what that will allow you to do is by having the same tools they can communicate back to like, you know what? Now that I kind of think about this and the ADKAR framework that you're trying to implement, I'm actually stuck in the knowledge part. I don't have enough training or I didn't understand the training that we went through. I need a little more hands on training in order to be successful at this. Others, you'll definitely run into people that don't have the desire to change. They don't want to change. I also have 101 year old grandma. And getting her to change is like, no way, I'm not doing it. So by me understanding change management, I'm like, I know they're going to be stuck in that desire state. But me, I have the tools and understanding to help them get past that, to really understand from them. Why do they not have the desire to change? Right. What is keeping them from gaining that desire on their side? So then I can also change the way I'm communicating to them. Right. Or how I'm communicating to them. They might need additional documentation or they might just need additional hands on time with you to better understand it so they can roll it out to their team or they can help be an advocate for you. So I think we've all ran into this multiple times in our career. But the one thing just say is like, don't be afraid to pause and go seek first to understand from them what's really getting them hung up. So you can help them through that change.

JJ: I like the idea of almost entrusting more of the process with them. In other words, letting them get involved in that process, as I mentioned before, I think sometimes it's probably a good thing that you don't get bogged down in this heavy framework and these processes and that sort of thing. And maybe you go through some of this without even people realizing you're using this ADKAR framework or any other processes that you're using. But when you find resistance, it may be a beneficial thing to bring someone into the process and show them why it's important.

And not only, of course, use the actual desire and knowledge and kind of get them through that, but let them know what we're doing and what we're using. Because I think trusting people as part of the process is one of those things that can get them kind of embracing this a little bit more. And absolutely what you said, basically having empathy for them. Right. And understanding there, you know, put yourself in their shoes and understanding what they're coming from, I think is really critical there as well.

LORI: Yeah. And bringing them into the process and giving them some awareness of what you're trying to the framework that you're using, it also takes the feelings out of it. It takes the emotion out of it, and it helps you all center back on the change itself, and it makes it about something larger than the both of you. So then you can start driving to that overarching desired outcome that both teams probably are trying to achieve anyways for the company's sake.

JJ: Yeah, that's a great point. Okay, so great frameworks, great advice so far, but how could someone get started? Right. Let's say there's a change coming up in someone's organization. How would you advise them to just get started using these principles.

LORI: Wonderful question. So when I first started, I first took a look at my future roadmap, saying, okay, this next thing that I got coming up, it's a pretty big change. It's probably going to have some processing changes. Found it. Let's dive in and see how I can start applying this. The first thing that I personally do every time is I actually spend the time planning for the change, which is a step that we often all skip. Right. We want the desired outcome, and that's just what we want. So let's just do it. But by taking a second to actually plan out how I want the change to happen, I'm able to create what you'll hear as a communication plan for that change. So that way I can take a step back and look at, OK, what do I want the outcome to be, and how can I make sure that the communication around that outcome is in the right medium for my stakeholders, whether they're internal, external, I might communicate it in different ways. Is there additional pieces that need to go with that communication? Whether it's documentation or training video? I can kind of lay out those things in addition to my normal release plan, a rollout plan of the actual feature itself. So that's really what I try to do is start with the communication plan, and then as we start development and start releasing these things, you can kind of run the communication in parallel. So by the time you get done building it, everyone's been hearing about this great thing you've been doing for months, maybe, or weeks maybe. So they're just as excited as you are. It's not a shock to them after you get it built. It's like, okay, yeah, we're aware of it. Yes. We've been talking about this forever. Great. It's time to use it. Let's use it. So it really takes that surprise element a little bit out of your future development, but it gets everybody moving in the same direction and getting on board with that change sooner rather than later.

JJ: Yeah, that makes total sense. And again, I think so many of these things that we can use in product management to be effective tools, it's sometimes intimidating just to get started. So I love the advice that you give there to just get someone started and then get their feet wet and then move from there. So you've mentioned a few resources, obviously, through this conversation. But I always like to give listeners the experts resources that they like to use. And so we'll put these resources, anything that you mentioned, we'll put those on the Product Voices website as well.

So what go to resources have you learned change management from? And what are some resources that you've to still go to as you're navigating this change management space.

LORI: Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned today, obviously, I talked a lot about ADKAR specifically PROSCI if you're a formal formal training type of person. I love formal trainings. They do offer a formal change management training for individuals as well as like a company wide one. So that is through the PROSCI website, which will be linked at the end of this. There are some books as well, if you love reading. Actually, a few of them are written by a gentleman named Jeffrey Hyatt. He's kind of like the change guru, because now that I'm looking at this, he's actually the author of all three books that I enjoyed reading around change management. So one of them is literally specifically around ADKAR. It's called ADKAR How to implement Successful Change in our Personal Lives and Professional Careers.

And then the second resource that I really enjoyed reading after I kind of learned this framework and how to implement it is also by Jeffrey Hiatt and Timothy Creasy. And it's called Change Management The People Side of Change. So this book really kind of talks about how to get in and apply it, as well as some of those like road bumps or hurdles that you might experience along the way and how to work yourself through them. So those are some great resources that I always refer back to. Every change is different. So sometimes when I get hung up, I'll pull one of those books out and kind of flip through them and see if I can get another piece of advice for the thing I'm specifically going towards.

JJ: Great resources. And again, ProductVoices.com, those will be linked on as well. Okay. So final question for you. What pro tip would you like to leave our listeners with from your experience and change management?

LORI: My go to pro tip would be evaluate the size of your change and if it's a bigger change or change that requires multiple teams, whether they're internal teams or external teams. The best piece of advice I ever got for this was get yourself a change sponsor. So a change sponsor is typically in a leadership role and they can help you advocate across the organization or across these multiple teams and really start to bring all the rest of the leaders on board with it. So having a change sponsor can really help you drive this change, get alignment and get buy in from all the other people you need to come on board. So that would be my piece of advice.

JJ: Great resources. And again, product Voices.com, those will be linked on as well. Okay. So final question for you. What pro tip would you like to leave our listeners with from your experience and change management?

JJ: Yeah, that's a really good piece of advice. How about that change sponsor? I like that.

I actually do have one final question for you. Very important. Do you ever get your 101 year old grandmother out to go bowling with you?

LORI: She does not go bowling anymore, but she does love to go to the casino with me. Grandma and I go to the casino every once in a while and have some fun. But when she comes to the bowling alley, she doesn't bowl anymore. She just likes to watch us and cheer us on. She always tells us that she's our good luck charm, which I'm not surprised. Yeah, it's great to have her in the bowl.

JJ: Look, if you can live to 101, you got some luck on your side. I believe her, although I kind of would like to see her heckle you. That'd be kind of fun, too.

LORI: Oh, yeah. That definitely happens. If you're not performing the grandma standard, she'll let you know.

JJ: I love it. Again, 101. You know what? She doesn't have to change anymore. So your change management advice, she's going to tell you to go jump in the Lake.

Lori Edwards, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Really, really important topic, and I'm glad that we can shine a little bit of light on it. Thank you so much for joining me and sharing your wisdom with us.

LORI: Thank you, JJ. It's been a pleasure

JJ: And thank you all for listening to Product Voices. Again, all of the resources, transcript and audio will be@productvoices.com hope to see you on the next episode.

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Using Change Management Principles in Product Management

Episode 011: Lori Edwards:

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